I'll tell you something. I am just about sick of Ravelry.
A few days back, someone expressed surprise at seeing profanity on the forums in Ravelry. She pretty much got the response of "So what? There are no children in Ravelry." Number one, that isn't true. I happen to know of some children who are members.
I pointed out that there are adults who don't appreciate obscene language either, and I was basically told to 1) skip over those words--like you can really do that, or 2) if I didn't like it, I could leave.
In other words, the prevailing attitude was "I'm going to say what I want to say and I don't care who it hurts because by golly I've got freedom of speech!" Or to put it simply, I was informed that they had no intentions to show me the courtesy and respect I deserve as a human being. It's like a slap in the face.
Now, I usually do leave the groups when objectionable content is posted, just like I will delete a blog from my blogroll. I deleted the bookmark to one of my favorite podcasts yesterday because at the very end, for no reason whatsoever, the person doing the podcast let rip with a completely unnecessary obscenity.
The problem with Ravelry is that there are some groups you can't leave. They are the default forums that everyone is forced to be a member of. No, I don't go to most of them, but they are still there cluttering up my forums page. Today I asked how I could remove myself from these groups because I'd run across some posts that I'd found offensive, and was absolutely ripped for it. I was told that I didn't have the right to tell them what they could and could not post. Well, I wasn't. I was asking how I could remove myself from their presence.
It has gotten to the point that there are precious few groups I really feel comfortable reading and posting in. There are nearly 2000 groups in Ravelry, and I only feel comfortable reading about 6 of them. The only ones I really even care about any more is my Dallas Cowboys group, and the Mississippi Knitters group. If it weren't for those, I'd leave the site altogether.
I guess I should expect as much from a group that allows you to post the vilest of obscenities right there in your profile.
10 comments:
Hi,
I just wanted to say thank you for the lovely contest gifts. I'm sorry it's taken so long. I couldn't find your email in the mess that is my inbox:) I love the color of the Essential, and the chocolate, tea, and cocoa will be saved for a rainy (snowy) day in the near future. I also really like to cup:) I collect mugs, so it was perfect.
As for your post, I completely agree. I was so excited when I got my invite, but I find there are a lot of people on Ravelry who only want to hear themselves talk and really have very little patience for other people's opinions or feelings. Often I voice my opinion only to have three people immediately tell me I'm wrong and ungrateful because I want something improved. Ridiculous. Now I avoid the generic forums unless I need specific help with something.
I figured out yesterday that you can actually make additional tabs and relegate the forums you don't want to see to the other tabs. This way you only see the forums you want on your preferred tab, and the other forums only come forward when you want them to.
Hope this helps!
Sarah,
I'm glad you are enjoying your prize. I have a thing for mugs, too, so I'm glad you like it.
Thank you for the affirmation of my feelings. I was beginning to think I was the only one.
Thank you also for the information about tabs. I'll try to figure that out later today.
I agree with you, too, Becky. I don't even do any forums anymore -- Too many people take too many trivial things too seriously and get *way* too self-righteous about it, and I just don't have time or tolerance for it. I've become very selective about my modes of correspondence. For the small amount of time I've actually spent on Ravelry, I've really enjoyed looking at people's projects and the patterns available, but I haven't gotten on the forums and don't really plan to. I do think that it's pretty useless that they have that swear word question on profiles (I blame James Lipton and Bernard Pivot), but I don't really care that much. But, I completely respect that you do. As you might have noticed, I didn't feel comfortable actually writing my favorite swear word on my profile, even though I have no problem saying it sometimes (depending on the company), and it's a doozy. It's like you said -- who knows who's reading that?
Wow. That was incredibly long and probably boring way of saying, "Yeah! What you said!" :)
It's great to be reading your blog again. Darned self-imposed exile! I've missed you!!!
Hmmm. Interesting. I have serious mixed emotions, here.
On the one hand I feel people should be free to make asses out of themselves, if that's really what they wanna do. OTOH, I don't particularly enjoy reading gratuitous profanity. A well-placed f-bomb in a heartfelt rant is appropriate, sometimes... most times. But, if your everyday speech is littered with 'em, that's a horse of an entirely different color, nu?
Speaking as an Ol' Sarge who, at one point in time, was as linguistically-profane as it can possibly GET. I'm tryin' to quit, tho.
Although I rarely use profanity, I do have my words now and then. Yet, for the sake of others, I do try to watch my mouth and my mind. It is just good manners - something some people lack.
What the others said, and to add: the "freedom of speech" excuse for boorish speech that certain individuals trot out is really getting tired. Like Buck said, just cuz people in this country are free to be idiots, doesn't mean that the rest of us want to see or deal with it.
Becky, I still say you should open your own knitting group (free on Yahoo, and takes all of about 2 minutes to create). You can make yourself as group owner and moderator, there's section for links and photos and whatever, and invite only those you want to participate. Best of all, you can make the no profanity thing a rule, and ban those who don't want to play by said rules.
http://groups.yahoo.com/
P.S. You could even maybe open it up to ALL crafters so that us lowly cross-stitchers could join. ;-)
I think what bothers me about most forums (not just Ravelry) is how they end up becoming very cliqueish (sp?).
But, that said, I do enjoy Ravelry for being able to keep track of my own projects and search out new ones. :-)
On my blog there might be an occasional profanity, but I agree with the others --- just to say (write) the words just because you can? Eh ... not a great sign of intelligence in my book.
I think Dee makes a good point. Some groups, no matter where, do end up clique-ish. The question is, do you want to be part of that clique? I guess I'm fortunate that the groups I frequent the most don't use that language, or use it much, and it is unnecessary. Heck, I started one of the groups that I frequent, so there you go!;-) But I agree. Have you thought about saying something to the creators of Ravelry? I mean, they may also take the "freedom of speech" bend, but at least you can give them the feedback that perhaps as it really starts going (as if it isn't right now), that perhaps more moderation is needed, or standards need to be set so that everyone can enjoy the site, and I mean EVERYONE. You know?
Thank you all for your support. Thanks to Sarah's suggestion, I have made tabs, and put the offending forums in a tab entitled Forums Never To Be Read Again.
I have also found some of the forums to be very cliquish, and I remove myself from them pretty quickly. There are some forums where foul language and such are just the order of the day. I respect those people's right to have those forums, and I'm not going to go there and tell them not to be that way. I just don't visit those forums.
The forums I frequent most are generally free of profanity, and if one does creep in, it's one of the milder ones. What got my goat is that Casey (the code monkey and founder of Ravelry) asked that the default forums--the forums members can't unsubscribe from--be kept free of profanity. There are people who refuse to comply with that request. I have notified Casey and another moderator, and that is all I can do.
Patti, I have no desire to start a yahoo group for knitters. There are already a jillion of them out there, and I have been a member of a few of them. There are already some that are profanity free-- Christian Artisans springs immediately to mind. It is open to all crafts, too, not just knitting. So any group I would start would be redundant. I usually don't stay in any group for long for the plain and simple reason that I get bored with them.
I still love Ravelry for the organization that comes with the notebook feature. I have my favorite forums--one of which I started myself. I understand that people should be able to talk the way they want to. But in order to have rights, you must be able to respect the rights of others. A person's right to use profanity does NOT supersede my right not to have to listen to it.
I took a little bit of time to work out what I wanted to say. I hope it comes across as well as I mean it.
I am sorry that you have been made to feel uncomfortable on Ravelry, and even more so that you have had so many here agree with you that it is full of profanity and inconsiderate people. I haven't had poor experiences myself, but it makes me sad to think that others are saying basically "sit down and shut up" (if I am getting your meaning correctly).
I hope you know that is totally not an attitude that Casey or Jess would condone. You yourself mentioned that Casey had requested that no profanity be used on the main boards. I know that they are working on a filter at the moment, though I don't know when it would be complete, so that both underage (yes people do acknowledge they exist!) and people who would just rather not read that sort of questionable language/content could opt out.
From what you said about if there wasn't the 2 groups that you were still passionate about that you'd leave the site altogether, I hope that isn't true. Although the forums have become a big thing for some people, they were never the sole or even main point of the site. I have a few I like to follow (such as the Green Crafters) which are really educational or just entertaining (I help moderate a Harry Potter group because I am a huge fan), but mostly I see Ravelry as this amazing cross-referenced tool, which helps us share information about the fiber arts with each other.
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